‘Lasting Love’ Radio Interview

Larry Morrow: Welcome to Truth For Life. And those bells in the theme today are quite appropriate, because today we’re beginning a series on marriage which we’ve aired previously. We’ve also updated some of the material and have added a special in-studio interview with Alistair Begg to introduce his new book called Lasting Love: How to Avoid Marital Failure. And today is that special program.

Alistair, that’s an interesting title. Why did you write this book?

Alistair Begg: Well, you know, I didn’t set out to write a book, especially not on marriage. Because, as we acknowledge, there is so much material on that.

I had actually been in an ongoing situation—my wife and I—with two of our best friends, and their marriage was in difficulty. I had made a journey from Cleveland back to Scotland expressly to encounter one of my friends and to try as best as I could to represent our love and our care for them and our concern for their marriage. On my return journey, I was sitting on the plane—actually, at Heathrow—waiting to take off, and there was a delay for some reason. I took out a legal pad, and I was still very much exercised by all that had been going on. And I was reflecting on the fact that I was the one going to try and help them. And I said to myself, “Well, I hope it never happens that anyone has to come and do that for me.”

And then I thought, “Well, how do I prevent those circumstances ever emerging in my life?” And so, on the legal pad, I wrote across the top of it, “How should I avoid marital failure?” And then I just began to write down everything that came into my mind: biblical principles, practical pointers, things that had been said. Then the publishers were asking about the possibility of putting together some booklets, and I said, “Well, you know, I think I might have put together a booklet on the plane.” And I recounted what had happened. And they said, “Well, let’s look at that.” When I gave it to them to look at, they said, “Well, we think that what we ought to do is actually encourage you to write a book rather than simply stop here with a booklet. And so again at their behest, I endeavored to do that. And the book then emerged out of the points that I had written to myself. And so I say—half joking, whole serious—that the reason I wrote the book was for myself. And if it’s helpful to others, then of course that’s an added bonus.

Larry: Alistair, we have about as many books on marriage as we do on diets. Diets will come and go, but marriage obviously is forever. In your introduction, you speak of surveying the vast array of books on relationships—particularly on marriage. Either a book has a strong biblical base and little application or an extensive practical and experimental perspective at the expense of a sufficient biblical base or foundation. Does Lasting Love close this gap?

Alistair: Well, I hope it goes some way towards closing it. At least that was my thought, because I was struck by the fact that as I began to put pen to paper, I was simply adding to a vast array of literature, as you’ve already said. And the biggest hurdle that I had to fight at the outset was “Why even do this? Surely everything has been said that needs to be said. And what have I really got to contribute to the subject?”

But the more I looked at the material, it was just as you’ve outlined. Some of them were very, very strong on principles but lacked any kind of immediate application, and I think the majority of them were on the other side—all sorts of things that were fairly extravagant remedies but tended to deal with symptoms and left you feeling at the end that unless you had enough money to go to Hawaii on a regular basis, you probably weren’t going to be able to make it. And consequently, since most of us aren’t able to do that on a frequent basis, then probably we’re in difficulty. And so I hope it does. That, of course, remains to the reader to determine. But I hope they’ll read it and decide for themselves.

Larry: You know, Alistair, we all have expectations of what we believe marriage to be. But why is it that we don’t discuss, when we sit down with our partners, long before we get married, what we expect of one another? “What do you expect of me? What is it that I expect of you?” That’s something you touch on in your book.

Alistair: Well, I touched on that because it really is a very, very important thing. It’s the whole aspect of communication. I think part of the reason is that most of us, when we get married, are kind of carried along on a tidal wave of emotion, and we tend to think that love will conquer all and that, somehow or another, everything will just fall into line because it will fall into line. And then, when we reach the cruising altitude, and the seat belt sign is turned off, and we get into the level of a long flight to wherever, we suddenly realize that unless we’ve mastered the skills of communicating with one another, finding out what makes the other person happy or unhappy, then we probably shouldn’t have been sitting together in the first place.

You know, I think part of the reason as well is the absence of good role models. And this is, again, one of the reasons that I’ve written the book: so that young couples may fasten on to these principles early, and then, as they bring up their children, might be able to model to another generation the very outworking of the principles to which you’re referring.

Larry: You know, Alistair, since the original plan of marriage was God’s idea, somehow our society believes this is a relatively new institution dreamed up by man.

Alistair: If we thought it up, we can dismantle it!

Larry: Sure.

Alistair: And that’s why the whole foundational element of it is so important, which is why, again, if you simply write a book that is very practical but doesn’t answer the “Why should I?” question or the “Who says?” question or, you know, “Why am I supposed to obey that?” then the person can only make decisions on the basis of pragmatism: “Well, I think it’s workable,” or “I think it feels good for me,” or whatever else it is. And that all starts from the premise that we are the masters of our own destiny, and we’re doing this. But as soon as you introduce the fact that this is God’s design, it is his blueprint, he is the Creator, he is the one who knows us, he fashioned us, and he knows what’s best for us, then it changes the perspective, and it changes the whole panorama completely.

Larry: Alistair, when, you know, we take a look at society—there’s, Larry King getting married for the sixth time, etc.—society has one view of marriage. Theirs is a contractual arrangement—you know, “Let’s get all this done in front.” Then over here on the other hand, we have God’s covenant. How do you express that to young people when you’re speaking to them?

Alistair: Well, you know, I usually use the analogy or the illustration that emerged when I drove down through the Carolinas for the first time, the first time I ever drove to Florida after coming here. And I was driving in the middle of the night. Everyone had gone to sleep, although they all said they would stay awake, as they usually do. It’s the father’s role. And I was trying to prop my eyes open and stay awake. And I became aware, as I drove through the mountains, of these strange roadways that were going up on my right-hand side. Every so often, you came around a bend, and there was a road that almost rose perpendicular from your right-hand side. The first time I saw it, I hadn’t a clue what it was. And then I noticed again. And I realized that these things are put there for these huge, big trucks so that if they lose their brakes, they can go flying up those things, and that will take the sting out of it, and they won’t be wrecked by going down over the cliffside, which of course is eminently sensible. And I think that a lot of young people, especially, enter marriage with the notion, “Well, if the brakes give out, there are lots of these runways that I can get off on the right-hand side. I won’t have to manage the bends. I won’t have to get it under control. Therefore, I won’t worry too much about it if it all falls apart, ’cause I’ll just slip off to the side. When in point of fact, what the Bible says is that the promises in the covenant that we establish in marriage rules out the possibility of these slip roads and says, “No, we’re going to have to work through the difficult days when illness comes, and we’re going to work through the days when, frankly, the emotions are not as strong as they once were.”

As soon as you introduce the fact that this is God’s design, it is his blueprint, he is the Creator, he is the one who knows us, he fashioned us, and he knows what’s best for us, then it changes the perspective.

And so if couples would go into it with it clear in their minds that there’s no way out, the only way is through, then that in itself, I think, would be largely preventative in stopping people from immediately heading off the slip roads.

Larry: So this is not a trial. It’s a divine mandate.

Alistair: That’s exactly right. And that’s why when we say these things in marriage, they’re supposed to mean something—you know, “For better, for worse; for richer, for poorer; in sickness and health.” That sounds okay until your wife goes in for surgery, and she comes out, and she’s lost all the use of her limbs, as happened to one of my friends not so many years ago. His wife goes in for routine surgery to correct a problem in her spine, and she comes out quadriplegic. All of a sudden, those marriage vows start to get really significant. And unless there is a commitment to the things that have been said, then, of course, you’ll bail at that point. And many do.

Larry: Let me quickly jump in to let our listeners know that what we’re talking about is your new book, Alistair, called Lasting Love: How to Avoid Marital Failure.

Alistair, in a recent survey, two-thirds interviewed consider divorce a reasonable solution to a problem marriage. It’s astounding, isn’t it? I mean, there’s that way out again.

Alistair: Yeah, it’s astounding that it would be true just in terms of the culture in general. But what’s more astounding is that the statistics are relatively unchanged when you walk within the doors of a church and you ask the same question. And it would appear that people answer on two levels. They answer, first of all, on the theoretical level, to which they would say, “No.” But as soon as it descends to the practical level, I have found that even those who would be most strong and vociferous about the absolute standard of marriage, and so on—soon as it’s their daughter or as soon as it’s their, you know, niece or whatever else it is, it’s amazing how quickly the Bible is just not as clear as they once thought it was.

And that, of course, I presume, is going to be the danger for all of us: that theoretically we’re committed to an ideal; practically, we find ourselves standing with the culture and saying, you know, “Well, you know, I think frankly that maybe this just doesn’t possess the clarity that I thought it did.” And that’s why, again, it is so important that we start from biblical principle before we move to practice. Because otherwise, we are constantly calling people to do something because of the worthwhile nature of the doing of it. The fact is that to try and work to the restoration of my marriage may be the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. And unless I have a sense of the rightness of doing it or the oughtness of doing it, then I probably won’t do it at all.

Larry: I remember Gloria Steinem and the rest of the women’s movement, many, many years ago, had a field day with Ephesians 5:22, where wives are challenged to submit to their husbands, and husbands are told to love their wives just as Christ loved the church.[1] It doesn’t matter how many women I speak to, Alistair: They do not want to submit to their husbands.

Alistair: No. And the reason they don’t goes right back to the book of Genesis. I mean, this is where the Bible speaks with absolute clarity to the issue: that when sin entered into the world, it fractured relationships, including the relationships between men and women, including the relationship between a husband and a wife. And therefore, we’re in need of divine help in order to do these things.

You know, Gloria Steinem is just now the great-grandmother of all the children that have followed her, and the expressions of late-twentieth century women are far more extreme than even the things that she had to offer. And the continuum expresses that.

So, again, it’s important for us to dialogue with people, realizing they start from a different position, and to think through with them the issues, and to speak to them with the same compassion and love that Jesus spoke with people, so that we’re not coming to them just to beat them, as it were, over the head with a large black book of rules and regulations, but we’re actually saying, you know, “The reason that your life is broken down at the side of the road is because you don’t pay attention to the handbook, and you won’t listen to what the Designer has said. And if you will do things according to the Designer’s plan, then not only will it please him, but it will bless you.” And folks just don’t believe that.

Larry: You know, you can imagine, Alistair, someone’s marriage is beginning to fail, and then you pick up the Bible, and you walk over to them and say, “Look, here’s the instruction manual on how to save this marriage. Go ahead.”

Alistair: Right.

Larry: They wouldn’t do that, would they?

Alistair: No. And again, that’s where friendship comes in. That’s where models come in. And that’s why, in this book, I refer to folks who have, by their lifestyle, lived out the principles. Because seeing it is a lot better than hearing it in the first case. You know, because people look around and say, “Well, I hear what you’re saying, but I haven’t seen it modeled.”

And that’s why I’m ever so thankful for the folks around me who are further ahead when it comes to marital life. And they continue to model for me what I’m supposed to be doing. Because, you know, I might have written the book, but I wrote the book, first of all, to myself, as I said in the introduction. I mean, I didn’t write it because I had worked everything out and was doing it perfectly. You only need to check with Sue to determine that to be the case.

Larry: As I was going through your book—I’ve been married twenty-four years, and I thought, “Well, this book is going to be about dating, and, you know, you should really sit down with your pastor seven months before you get married,” etc., etc. I’m married twenty-four years, and I’m going through this book and saying to Rosary, “Ro! Look at this! Listen to this! We should be doing this!” So, it’s a wonderful instruction manual in that way too, Alistair.

Alistair: Well, I’m encouraged by that. That’s exactly what I hoped might happen. And I hope even your saying of it will encourage others who have been married and are in the mainstream of things to pick it up. I mean, I haven’t met anyone from whom I can’t learn something. The greatest danger that we have…

I remember some years ago my wife and I had the privilege of spending the day in the home of Billy and Ruth Graham—actually, when we were on our honeymoon. And we’d only been married for six or seven days. And here we were, and having lunch with this very wonderful couple. And as we left, Ruth gave a book to us both. And one was Letters to Karen, which was letters written by a father to his daughter in prospect of marriage, and the other one was Letters to Philip, which was again written to the young man in prospect of marriage. And I don’t remember what Ruth wrote in Sue’s book, but I do recall what she wrote in mine. And she wrote, “Dear Alistair, read this book quickly, before you become an expert.”

And, you know, I haven’t forgotten that. And in the writing of these chapters, I certainly don’t write as someone who considers himself expert at all, except perhaps increasingly expert in diagnosing the condition and in recognizing the challenges.

Larry: How insightful.

Alistair: Yeah, I think so.

Larry: Before we move on to more of the content of the book, let me quickly say that we’re talking about Alistair’s new book called Lasting Love: How to Avoid Marital Failure. And it’s available in both a hardcover and audiobook format from Truth For Life. So, call 1-800-878-8414 to ask for the details.

Alistair, there are danger signals everywhere. But for those who are just now starting to think of marriage, what are some of them?

Alistair: Well, one of the great dangers is just that sort of passionate burst of enthusiasm that casts all care aside and hurtles, as it were, towards the front of the church—what we refer to in the book as “the hurry-up offense.” I never even knew what that was fourteen years ago until I came here and started to watch American football.

Larry: Yeah, that’s right. You’re an old soccer guy.

Alistair: That’s exactly right. And so I’m actually fearful of using the illustration lest I’m using it incorrectly, but just the idea of “We’ve got to get this going as fast as we can, as soon as we can,” and casting all considerations of practicalities to the side. That’s a danger. It’s understandable that people would feel that way. I should qualify it and say that the danger is that when young people are counseled about that being a danger, if they don’t even identify the fact that it is a danger, then that’s really the danger. In other words, everybody would like to hurry up and consummate their marriage in every dimension because of the sense of love that they feel—but the danger in making inadequate preparations.

Another danger is unrealistic expectations. The young couple sits down, and you ask them, “Well, what are you going to be doing?” And, you know, the fellow says, “Well, I don’t have any money, and my wife doesn’t have any money, but, you know, love conquers all.” And you have to sit and say to them, you know, “Well, I don’t know how long you can eat toasted cheese sandwiches for, but that’ll get old really quickly.” Or, you know, “I know that my girlfriend or my fiancé has a little bit of a critical side to her, but I’m sure she won’t have when we’re married,” or “I know that he isn’t very punctual, or he doesn’t always tell the truth, but I’m sure that when we’re married, that will all be sorted out.” Those kind of expectations are not only unrealistic, but they’re definite danger signals.

Larry: You know, Alistair, we also are obsessed with the externals. All the ladies want to look like Cindy Crawford. All the guys want to look like a football player who just, you know, walked off the field. What do you say to young couples when the first thing someone might say to me is, “Larry, what did you notice first about Rosary?” “Well, her pretty eyes.” You know, we start with externals automatically, don’t we?

Alistair: Well, of all the things you might have said, I think “pretty eyes” is a fairly safe one insofar as our eyes tell a lot about us in the way in which we use our eyes, and they give a gateway into our souls. But if we had chosen some other things—just, “Well, she’s the right proportions,” or whatever else it is… Certainly I haven’t met many men who are looking for particularly disproportionate spouses or have a great desire to find externally ugly people with whom to spend the rest of their lives. But I have met a number of young men who are so preoccupied with that that they have missed the fact that the real beauty in a person is a beauty which comes from inside and which can transcend any external packaging.

That’s hard to learn. But hopefully, in the process of time, as young couples have the chance to spend time in groups and with one another, then they can begin to see that the ability to talk, the ability to listen, the ability to laugh, the sense of compassion—all these kinds of things have a far greater and more lasting value than the externals, which of course will fade with relative speed.

So, again, I think, you know, wise counsel for young people is so important when it comes to these issues. They’re not necessarily going to take it from their dad, but they may take it from a peer. They may take it from a friend or a colleague. But they certainly need it. We all do.

Larry: As you say, the physical images seem to fade. And you’re left, actually, with character and substance, aren’t we?

Alistair: That’s absolutely right. You know, that’s why when Peter writes, he says that the beauty of a lady should be “the imperishable jewel of a gentle and [a] quiet spirit.”[2] And when you think about that, you go to parties, and there are people there, and they’re wearing, you know, the designer dress. They’re wearing the right kind of jewelry. They have the right kind of stuff. But they open their mouths, and they’re ugly. They have a critical spin on life. They perhaps are crass in the way they speak, and you suddenly realize that all of that external stuff can’t compensate for ugliness inside. And yet in reverse, internal beauty—loveliness, kindness, deportment, style, class—more than compensates for whatever the external package might be.

I would always say to a young person, if you’re going to chinse on anything, chinse on the outside, but don’t chinse on the inside. Because it is the inside that is going to really make a difference as time goes by.

Larry: Alistair, speaking of the substance and the character of people and the style and the integrity, there are many women listening to us right now who will say, “What should I look for in a husband? Where do I start?”

Alistair: Well, you know, that list could probably, Larry, be very, very long. What I tried to do in the book was just hit on a selective group of thoughts, and the first of which is that—and we’re thinking in Christian terms, now—but in relationship to the whole compatibility factor, a lady should look for a man who is committed to growing in his relationship with Christ. And I deliberately put it in those terms rather than simply saying that she ought to look for a Christian. Because when we say, “Well, what do we mean by Christian?” and “How Christian?” and everything else, you can get yourself in all kinds of difficulty insofar as ladies or girls will come to me all the time and say, “Well, I know that he is a Christian.” And I say, “Well, that’s fine, but is he committed to growing in his relationship with Jesus Christ? I mean, how much of his life is interwoven with the Bible? How much of his life is involved with other Christian men?” And that kind of thing.

So, that is fundamentally important. And the reason is because the man is to take the spiritual lead within the home. And so many ladies will come to me now and say, “You know, not only do I have to care for the affairs of the home, not only do I have to balance the checkbook because that’s what my husband has asked me to do, not only do I have to get the children to and from everything else, but now it appears that the responsibilities of the spiritual dimension of our lives have fallen to me.” And that is often on account of the fact that the gentleman that she has married is not committed to growing in his relationship with Jesus Christ. And although that may seem like an interesting first point, the longer I go in listening to people talk, the more I realize it’s vitally important.

That would be one. Another one would be that alongside that, the husband should be a man of absolute integrity. I mentioned in the book a situation where, some years ago, I was in the family room of a home, and a young man was coming to take out for the evening this young girl. And she was upstairs getting ready, he was talking to the girl’s mother, and I was listening to the conversation. And in the course of the conversation, he was explaining to the mother that he was a salesman and that he was actually doing quite well. He was fairly proud of how well he was doing and mentioned to the mother that there were little tricks to the task, one of which was that you had to tell people that they would be able to take delivery of the product sooner than you knew that they would actually be able to take delivery of it—in other words, that you told them, for example, “I can get this for you in four days” even though you knew that you couldn’t get it for them in fourteen days. And the reason you did this was because you had to hold them, and then you called them on the fourth day, and you said, “There’s been a bit of a delay” and so on. And he waxed eloquent on it.

And as he walked out the door with the girl, I said to the girl’s mother—I said, “You know, this guy’s got a real problem. And he will be a problem for your daughter if you’re not careful.” And the sorry end of the story is that they divorced after some years of marriage. And at the very heart of their divorce was the fact that he was a consummate liar. He was almost a pathological liar, and he lied about everything, and also his illicit relationships with other women. And it all stemmed from the fact that the girl would not take the counsel of those who knew and loved her best and pointed out to her the absence of integrity.

Larry: You spend sixteen pages talking about what a man ought to look for in a woman and what a woman ought to look for in a man. But there’s something that I wanted to touch on here, and that is, when they come to you and say, “Alistair, but what about my sexual feelings?”

Alistair: And I say, “Yeah, what about them?” I just saw an interview with Barbara Cartland, and the chap who was interviewing her said, “You know, your books are, you know, they’re somewhat quaint now.” And she said, “Oh, yes.” She said, “Because now, it’s all sex, sex, sex, and my books are about love, love, love.” And the man said, “Well, come now, there’s clearly a sexual dimension to the experience of love.” And she said, “Yes, there is, but it is a dimension. It cannot be in place of the emotional and the intellectual and the volitional attachments.”

And I think that one of the things that I’ve tried to say in the book, and one of the things that I want to say forcibly to my own children and to remind myself of and to make much of it, is the fact that the whole issue of our sexuality has to be framed within the context that God, again, the Designer, has established for it. And when we give expression to our sexual feelings within the right context, then we can enter into all of the benefits, we can experience all of the blessings. To remove that from those other factors is to create a monstrosity. And the reason that people will ask that question is so often because our whole culture is consumed with the thought of sex. And when they think about relationships, they think first of all in sexual terms. So the question of moving towards the unifying of heart and mind and body and soul in the act of a physical love—when that is brought up to the very beginning of things, then the people have consummated a relationship without even finding if they like the person, without even knowing if they’re friends with the person. And it’s usually the guy that has all these questions.

And so, in other words, I say to them, “What about it?” And I’m not being facetious in answering that way. Of course sexual feelings are important, but they’re not as important as people are led to believe. And if we were to give as much attention to the context in which we’re supposed to give expression to those feelings, then the feelings would be all the greater and all the better.

Of course sexual feelings are important, but they’re not as important as people are led to believe.

And that’s a hard message to get across, but it is a true message. It’s a biblical message. And it’s one that we need to proclaim.

Larry: You know, speaking of a biblical message, a question that is sure to come up after people have been married for a while: If Moses permitted the Israelites to divorce,[3] what’s so different when Jesus came along?

Alistair: Well, the answer to that question, of course, that Jesus gives—and people can read it in the book hopefully—is that Jesus acknowledges the fact that there was the permission of divorce, but it was taking place on the basis of the hardness of people’s hearts.[4] In other words, it was an accommodation to circumstances as they were, but it was not a recommendation.

And Jesus, in answering the question, says, “Let’s go back to the basics, and let’s remind ourselves what God’s intention was from the beginning.” And he says, “It was God’s intention from the beginning that a man would leave his father and mother, and he would cleave to his wife, and the two would become one flesh. And whom God has joined together, man should not put asunder.”[5]

So, he is essentially saying there that God—and it says it actually in Malachi—God finds divorce distasteful. The phrase is actually that he “hate[s] divorce.”[6] But he allowed divorce, and divorce is still allowable, in New Testament terms, in relationship to the fact of adultery and in relationship to the issue of the departure of the unbelieving partner. However, it is never the recommendation of the Bible to proceed in that way, although it does acknowledge those exceptional circumstances.

Larry: In your chapter “Pulling Weeds,” it is obvious, in your yard, you most often than not do not know the difference between an herb and a weed. That is true, isn’t it?

Alistair: Yes, it’s sadly true. My wife is trying to educate me, but it is true.

Larry: But you do draw comparisons between weeding in your garden and the weeds in our marriages. They really must come out. How do you identify the weeds in your marriage, Alistair?

Alistair: Well, you know, the Bible, again—and I come back to it all the time, because that’s really the only source of authority, it’s the only source of answers to our questions. The Bible tells us what the weeds are, and the few that I make reference to in the book are simply selective out of a great number of weeds. And even as we talk now without reference to the book—for example, jealousy is a dreadful weed. And selfishness is a horrible weed. And pride is a dreadful weed. And so all of these things are identified for us by the Scriptures. And as we look at our lives in relationship to the mirror of God’s Word and we see ourselves—and particularly as it relates to our relationship with our spouse, then it’s imperative that not only do we see what the weeds are, but we go about the business of getting them out.

Larry: Another one of the weeds you speak of in your book is when we are guilty of taking advantage of one another and taking each other for granted.

Alistair: Well, Larry, that kind of thing creeps up on us. Every time I do a wedding, I always tell this to the young couple. They always look at me as if it could never possibly be, and then as life goes by, they realize how quickly it can happen: that the things that marked our courtship—the thank-you notes and the cards and the encouragements and the calls—begin to diminish over time. And it’s often only an outside pair of eyes or ears that can pick up on how, particularly, a problem like this has become rooted in a situation. And I tell a relatively humorous story, although it has a sad part to it in the book, emerging from a meal that I had with a family in Australia. And as a result of just a simple question on my part, it led to a huge counseling session that went on for days. And I don’t think I’ll spoil that. I’ll just leave it as a measure of intrigue. But essentially, what was going on was that the wife had begun to take her husband for granted and had just assumed that certain things ought to be.

I can remember staying at my grandmother’s home, and indeed, we have a few phrases that are unique to Sue and I that nobody would ever understand. For example, in certain circumstances, I will say to Sue, “Get me an orange, Willy.” And you know, nobody would have a clue what that means, but it is one of my grandmother’s lines. And she would be in her bed, it would be eleven o’clock at night, her husband would also be in bed, and she would decide that she would like to eat an orange before she goes to sleep. And so she would simply say, “Get me an orange, Willy.” And so my grandfather, very dutifully, would get out of his bed, walk over the cold floor out, and get an orange, and bring it back. And then he’d have to peel it, you know, and put it in position for her. And I think she appreciated him, but I’m not sure that she did. I mean, somewhere she did, but it was easy for her to take him for granted, because he had such a servant’s heart. And I think a little thank-you would have gone a long way many a time in his experience.

And, you know, that’s perhaps a silly illustration. But it’s illustrative of how, as time goes by, we can just begin to assume that, “Oh, the coffee will always be there. Oh, the shirts will always be hanging on the hook. Oh, the car will always be as it’s supposed to be,” and so on. And it’s imperative that we guard against that—and we ask help of others.

I’m not sure if I mentioned it in the book, but I was playing golf with a friend from Ireland, and we were in a golf course up in the Adirondacks in New York. And in the course of our game, as we went up to one of the tees—I can remember it vividly; I can see it in my mind’s eye as I speak—Norman said to me, just out of the blue, he said, “You know, do you mind if I say something to you?” And when somebody says that, of course, you know that you probably are going to mind, because otherwise why would they introduce it in that way: “Do you mind if I say something to you?” You’re thinking to yourself, “Yeah, I probably do.” But I said, “No.” I said, “That’s fine. Go ahead.”

And he said to me, he said, “You know Alistair, I’ve been with you in the last three or four days, and I’ve really enjoyed our time, and Linda has had a wonderful time with Sue, and everything else.” He said, “But, I’ve got to tell you something. In conversation as couples, you talk too much, and you don’t give your wife an opportunity to speak. And in your absence, she is a lot of fun. She has a lot of stories, and she’s very humorous. In your presence, she isn’t.” And he said, “I think you’re beginning to take for granted that she just loves listening to hear you speak. And I think you better learn to dry up a little and give her the opportunity to talk.”

Well, if he had hit me with a three iron in the back of the head, it would have been less painful. But you know what? I loved him for it. And I appreciate him for it. Because it’s a blind spot. And when you have a blind spot, it’s a blind spot because you can’t see it. And it takes somebody on the outside to point it out to you. And then the issue is: Are you going to be humble enough to acknowledge it, or are you going to become defensive?

Now, I recognize the blind spot. Whether I fixed it or not, I don’t know. But I know I need to. And I certainly don’t want to take her for granted.

Larry: Did you ever go back and tell Sue that story?

Alistair: Yes, I did.

Larry: You did?

Alistair: Yeah, and she said… I can’t remember what she said, ’cause I wasn’t listening.

Larry: “’Cause I wasn’t listening. I don’t care what you have to say.”

Alistair: Cue the music, it’s over.

Larry: Did you ever go back and tell that story to Sue?

Alistair: I’m not sure in its totality, but she’s certainly going to hear it now.

Larry: And she may be talking with you later on this evening about it.

Alistair: Absolutely.

Larry: What do you say to the businessman and businesswomen who travel extensively?

Alistair: Well, I say we better be very, very careful in establishing the parameters before we go on these journeys—that there are certain things that are imperative that we do or we don’t do. For example, absence can make the heart grow fonder, but also absence can mean “Out of sight, out of mind.”

And there are certain things that I do as a matter of course everywhere I go when I travel—that is, that as soon as I reach my destination, I always call Sue. Often on my journey, if I go through Denver or Chicago, I’ll actually call her from the airport. She’s there, she’s not there, but at least I give her a call. I’m not checking in with headquarters, but I already miss her, and I want to let her know where I am and how it’s going. When I reach where I am, I always give her a number so that she feels that I am accessible to her, that she has contact with me. I want to disclose to her all the details of what is going on in the day, and therefore I approach the day in such a way that I could tell her everything that had happened, knowing that she would be perfectly happy with everything that has happened. If there are little secrets in our minds that we’re keeping from our spouses, and we’re glad they’re not there, they’re usually a danger signal.

For men, I will always tell them to say, “When you get into your hotel, probably the very best thing to do is never even turn on the television. But if you determine that you have to see the baseball game or you definitely want to see CNN, then when you click on that thing and it says, “Adult Channels,” and then underneath it says, “If you call the front desk, these can be deleted from your television,” call the front desk. Get them off there before you even give yourself the potential for viewing them, because it just would be really detrimental.

There’s a whole host of things like that that I encourage them to do. And I think many of them actually, Larry—I can’t take credit for—I think many of them have been told to me by Christian businessmen in my congregation who have seen that in the opportunity to speak, I’ve been traveling. So they’ve told them to me, and I think I’ve been learning them from them rather than teaching them.

Larry: I remember a story you told. I was surprised you told it, but I was glad you told it, in writing this book, when you said you had to lock yourself somewhere—and somehow, Santa Monica comes to mind. But you were going to lock yourself in a friend’s beach house and finish writing this book. Do you remember that story?

Alistair: I remember it vividly. And, you know, the end of the story was that I retreated to live in another environment with an elderly couple. And actually, the couple find their names in the acknowledgments of this book, and if people look in the acknowledgment page and they wonder who they are—the Craigs. And I thank them for “watching out for me.” That phrase, “watching out for me” is in direct relationship to that incident, where I realized that I was going to be in a very, very vulnerable position to be in Montecito, Santa Barbara, all by myself, living essentially on the beach, and trying to write a book about how to avoid marital failure. And I had seen and heard of too many guys who, in writing books on marriage, had actually come a cropper. And since the Bible says if you think you’re standing, you should take heed lest you fall,[7] I decided that in relationship to that, I better put myself in a less vulnerable position and in a more secure position.

And so I went and spent the week or ten days with a couple that were old enough to be my grandparents. And when I was writing in this particular room, Hank would appear at the door. And do you know when you’re working on something—on a page or on a terminal—and you’re not looking up, you’re engrossed in what you’re doing, and you have this sense that maybe somebody’s there. And that was exactly what would happen. I would have the sense that somebody was there, and I would look up, and he would be standing in the doorway. And he’d look across at me, and he would say, “Just checking.” And then he would go away again.

And I think we all need the people to do the “Just checking” for us. And it is the height of naivety to think that we don’t. And to put ourselves in an accountable relationship with someone or others is a vital factor in keeping short accounts with sin, especially in this traveling game. And again, as I say, I’ve been learning this from my men in the church rather than teaching it to them.

Larry: As I was reading your book and going through all of your chapters, of course, the final chapter is “Planting Hedges.” You speak of the English, who grow hedges for not only beauty but for boundary. And as Robert Frost suggested, “Good fences make good neighbors.”[8] You say, Alistair, that the institution of marriage also needs boundaries and protection. How so?

Alistair: Well, you know, they say the Englishman’s home is his castle. And he has drawn up his boundaries around him, and it’s very isolationist, and it’s because he doesn’t want to be friendly. I don’t think it’s so much that. I think it is that he recognizes that he’s thankful for what he has there, and he wants to protect it and care for it and tend it.

And that’s the picture, really, that I’m making there in relationship to marriage. A couple have a responsibility to tend the garden of their affections, and the boundaries and parameters don’t need to be guessed at. Again, they’re given to us in the Scriptures. When I marry a young couple, I always say the same thing to them: “Make sure that you are thorough in resisting everyone and everything that would draw your affections away from each other.” And therefore, in the same way that if you don’t want to keep looking across at your neighbor’s yard, tempted by what’s in the yard, then far better to plant a hedge and not be constantly threatened by the temptation than to live always with that tyranny.

A couple have a responsibility to tend the garden of their affections.

And so what I say in the chapter is there are certain practical ways that the Bible gives to us to ensure that our eyes are focused in the right direction, that our hearts are stimulated to the right end. And there is only benefit that comes from that.

Larry: At the beginning of the interview, I asked you why you wrote Lasting Love. My final question to you, Alistair, is: What do you want people to come away with?

Alistair: Well, for people who are in the middle of their lives, I want them to come away from the book saying, “You know, I don’t think I learned anything new. I think that that was a helpful statement of essentials, some of which I had begun to neglect, and I’m glad of the reminder. So, I’ve run the first four hundred meters well. This book is a stimulus to me to run the next four hundred even better.”

For young couples or singles who are facing the prospect of marriage, I want them to see it as a course of preventative medicine so that they don’t have to make some of the mistakes, on account of the fact that they’ve been pointed out for them.

For others, who’ve lived with regret in their marriages, I want them to see that the love and forgiveness of the Lord Jesus cleanses them from all past sin and establishes for them a clean page and a new start. And I want them to take some of the principles of the book and apply them now to all of their tomorrows.

In short, I think, I want the book to simply encourage each of us to do the basics well most of the time. And if it achieves that, then I think it will have achieved what I set out to do.

Larry: Alistair, it’s always a pleasure.

Alistair: Thank you very much.

Larry: I wish we had another hour to talk about the depth and breadth of the material covered in this book called Lasting Love: How to Avoid Marital Failure. We’ve really only begun to scratch the surface, but the good news is that you can cover the material in greater detail when you ask for your copy of either the 255-page hardback version or the audiobook version featuring Alistair reading his own material. Call our resource line for more information on securing your copy when you call us at 1-800-TRUTH-14. That’s 1-800-878-8414.

I’m Larry Morrow. For Alistair Begg and the staff, thanks for listening.

This is a listener-funded program brought to you each day by Truth For Life, where the learning is for living.

That concludes this message. Thanks for listening to Truth For Life. If you’d like information on ordering additional messages from Alistair Begg and Truth For Life, then call our resource line at 1-888-58-TRUTH. Write to us at Post Office Box 398000 Cleveland, OH, 44139. Or visit us online at TruthForLife.org. Truth For Life, where the learning is for living.

---

[1] See Ephesians 5:22–33.

[2] 1 Peter 3:4 (RSV).

[3] See Matthew 19:7; Mark 10:4.

[4] See Matthew 19:8; Mark 10:5.

[5] Matthew 19:4–6; Mark 10:5–10 (paraphrased).

[6] Malachi 2:16 (NIV 1984).

[7] See 1 Corinthians 10:12.

[8] Robert Frost, “Mending Wall” (1914).